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Post by RichFactWebmistress on Jun 12, 2003 12:21:44 GMT -5
Stacy, this is NOT a dead horse. Far from it. We're still dealing with the affects of this Administration and the more information we have, the more we can do about the situation. Why do you call it a dead horse? Although, I understand moving it!!! RFW
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Post by Lexie Chica on Jun 12, 2003 16:55:58 GMT -5
Thanks, RFW, I *thought* that's what Stacy meant, but I wasn't sure. If we've misinterpreted what you meant, Stace, please let us know! And I agree, we shouldn't just "give up" . . . being as informed as possible is the first important step. The Patriot II Act (the one from earlier, with the secret executions provisions) hasn't yet passed. We may never know "all" of the little provisions that our fearful leaders have cooked up in such legislation, but to at least know the larger issues and implications is important. One really simple thing to do is to write, call, e-mail your reps in Congress up the ying-yang. Sometimes, we Americans can affect change in the politcal arena. Go figure. I'm hoping . . . Here's another good web site for learning more: The Bill of Rights Defense Committee -- www.bordc.orgLexie (who needs to dl some new smilies!)
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Post by unwillingsong on Jun 12, 2003 17:32:28 GMT -5
You guys--Lexie and RFW in particular--have brought some really important and interesting information to this thread... RFW...aren't you a Poli-Sci major? If not, you should be!
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Post by RichFactWebmistress on Jun 12, 2003 19:44:08 GMT -5
I WAS a Poli-Sci major. I am not anymore. I switched to Creative Writing/English.
RFW
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Post by unwillingsong on Jun 13, 2003 8:41:47 GMT -5
I WAS a Poli-Sci major. I am not anymore. I switched to Creative Writing/English. RFW I knew you were English--but for some reason I thought you were double majoring...and I guess your response explains why... :-)
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Post by MarlboroWoman on Jun 15, 2003 16:59:49 GMT -5
Where is Osama Bin Laden? Is he still alive? Are they still looking for him? How about Saddam Hussein? His two sons? Weapons of Mass Destruction (aka Weapons of Terror)? The War on Terrorism? Do we feel safer? Should these terror alerts mean anything? How about health care? Unemployment? Are we better or worse off? Who or what are we supposed to believe anymore?
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Post by Scully03776 on Jun 15, 2003 22:13:39 GMT -5
Where is Osama Bin Laden? Is he still alive? Are they still looking for him? How about Saddam Hussein? His two sons? Weapons of Mass Destruction (aka Weapons of Terror)? The War on Terrorism? Do we feel safer? Should these terror alerts mean anything? How about health care? Unemployment? Are we better or worse off? Who or what are we supposed to believe anymore? Well, I was content with lurking until I saw this thread... I did not vote for Bush... that in itself is a long and slightly humorous tale that I will post upon request... ... but I have been so dissatisfied with him as a President since Election Day but when the Patriotic Act went into effect, I felt ill. The current government administration seems consumed on wiping out terrorism that they are willing to terrorize their own population to achieve their goals overseas. We should not have to be afraid that someone is watching what we buy or read or listen to. Using fear and intimidation to obtain a goal is terrorism, no matter which way you cut it. The War on Terror, IMHO, is tainted with hysteria. What happened to plain old fashioned common sense? How is a list of books that someone bought going to stop the US from being attacked again? Or terror alerts? The terror alerts seem to be about on par with tornado warnings... if something is hellbent on destroying everything is headed your way, a little "Hey, head's up" is not going to stop the destruction... it's just going to give you time enough to hide. The current state of the nation reminds me a little of the Sedition Act of 1798 and McCarthyism. Keeping tabs on a person's reading habits sounds like the beginnings of a micromanaging witchhunt. There has to be a better way to protect our country than bending the Constitution to fit the situational needs of an unsure government. To me, there seems to be more pressing concerns than the ideological discord over in the Middle East... such as the issues of unemployment and insurance here at home. I think our government is trying too hard to make the world safe for everyone and it's just not possible to make everything the same for everyone everywhere. As hard as it would be for them to lay down their grudge against Afghanistan and Iraq and maybe this makes me a selfish person, but I believe that the government need to turn their attention back here and take care of their own people instead of trying to fix Iraq. And I think it is such a slap in the face to everyone that died for our country (including everyone in September 11) when someone tells someone else that they aren't being patriotic if they don't support Bush, and then apply the slippery slope arguement: If you don't support Bush, you don't support our troops. Our country was founded on the right not to have to go with the herd but to have our own opinions and beliefs. I don't like Bush as a president and don't plan on voting on him the next election. But that does not make me any less of an American nor does that make me disrespect the soldiers overseas away from their friends, their families, their lives, doing a job I am too chickenshit to apply for. I can't physically defend out country. But I can vocally and morally defend our country through information and education. And I have no issues with anyone supporting Bush as long as they don't shove their beliefs down my throat. Speaking of information, here's another good website to check out if it hasn't already been posted... I can't remember now.... American Civil Liberties Union www.aclu.org/Focus.cfm?ContentStyle=2(the ironic thing is... "American Cliche" started playing just as I was finishing up this post...)
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Post by Lexie Chica on Jun 15, 2003 23:22:50 GMT -5
Thank you Scully and RFW -- You both are very articulate in making your points. I'm more of the spinning head, ready to vent about these issues at the drop of a hat!! Now I'm going to have to explore Wark's theories a bit more . . .
This has turned out to be an interesting thread.
Lexie
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Post by MarlboroWoman on Jun 22, 2003 18:31:04 GMT -5
The troops are still in Iraq and they're getting killed and for what? They should be allowed to go home. I would love nothing more than for there to be peace in the Middle East, but if people are hell-bent on killing one another, and over what exactly?
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Post by Scully03776 on Jun 27, 2003 23:32:48 GMT -5
And now they're saying that they have actually found solid evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/27/sprj.irq.obeidi/index.htmlIf that's the case, now W is going to look like a hero and we'll be stuck with him for another four years. Honestly... I don't think I'd have such an issue with W if it wasn't for that God damned Patriot Act.
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Post by RichFactWebmistress on Jun 27, 2003 23:49:16 GMT -5
I heard about this and they said "this is NOT a smoking gun. . ." blah blah so it may not be the big hero trumpet Bush wants.
RFW
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Post by Lexie Chica on Jun 28, 2003 1:14:25 GMT -5
And now they're saying that they have actually found solid evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... Been there, done that. Every couple of days, there is a sensational headline about WMD evidence found -- then you find out it isn't true, or has been grossly exaggerated, or that it's some empty warhead from 12 years ago. We've now had 3 months of 'unfettered access' including special WMD search units, reinstatement of UN inspectors, etc., *plus* the capture/surrender of many of Iraq's top weapons specialists/scientists. And for several weeks, Bush has been asking for "more time," the same thing that he refused to give the UN and the rest of the world at their request before the US went into Iraq. What an ass. And I'm being polite. Is our 'intelligence' that crappy? Or did the Bushies overstate the threat and manipulate what little information that did exist so much that now they cannot defend the reason that they gave the world -- the imminent threat to the U.S. from Hussein and his WMD -- that they can't wiggle out of it? And I want to know -- regarding Colin Powell's presentation to the UN earlier this year, part of which focused on mobile units . . . if we were tracking these units so closely, why didn't we follow them so we would know where they are now/where they went to? Another half-baked job. And where do you put hundreds of thousands of GALLONS of biological and chemical agents (one of the claims of the Bush administration), without a trace of any residual evidence? And how come we're not hearing more about the U.S. report, "The National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq," which was circulating among the Bushies last fall while the Prez was making the claim/spinning the web that Hussein was linked to 9/11? This report cast serious doubts on an Iraq-Al Queda connections and included warnings about the reliability of any 'intelligence' about this issue, and about making any connections between the two groups. Well, W? Yeah, that's what I thought. Jon Stewart had a great comment the other night about Bush -- It was something along the lines of 'Everyone thinks, or at least thought, of Bush as a nice guy with not much upstairs, but in reality, Bush is a shrewd politician who isn't much of a nice guy after all' Touchee! I wish Jon Stewart would run for president.
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Post by MarlboroWoman on Jun 28, 2003 17:44:22 GMT -5
He'd get my support.
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Post by Scully03776 on Jul 1, 2003 19:23:37 GMT -5
**waves to RFW and Lexie**
And here I thought I stumbled across new and disturbing information ;D...
... actually, I've been kind of out of it lately because I had to take these two horrid tests for work, my brain is slowly recovering...
... still, you know that they are going to use that and similiar stories to try and make Bush look like he saved the world.
We need to start a grass roots campaign to get Jon Stewart elected!
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Post by RichFactWebmistress on Jul 1, 2003 19:27:57 GMT -5
I don't really know if Jewy-Jew Boy aka Stewart(it's a nick name btw, I didn't make it up) wants to be the President. He likes making the news up.
RFW
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